Dating Doctors
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[00:00:00] Emily: Welcome to the Brave Widow Show, where we help widows find hope, heal their heart, and dream again for the future. I'm your host, Emily Tanner. After losing my husband of 20 years, I didn't know how I could ever experience true joy and excitement again for the future. I eventually learned how to create a life I love, and I've made it my mission to help other widows do the same.
Join me and the Brave Widow membership community and get started today. Learn more at BraveWidow. com
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[00:00:35] Emily: Hey, hey, and welcome to episode number 102 of the Brave Widow show. I am so excited to share the special guests with you today, Dr. Gloria Horsley and Dr. Frank Powers. Listen, I get questions from widows all the time around dating, around finding love after lost, around whether or not it's too late, they're too old, they're too overweight, they're too this, they're too that, like whatever it is.
The main reason I built the Dating Masterclass series in the Brave Widow membership community is because our brains love to feed us insecurities. We love to believe all of these thought errors around all the reasons why finding a relationship isn't possible or won't be as good as our first one, or won't, we won't find someone who's accepting or who's close to us or who truly embraces everything about us.
[00:01:38] Emily: I built. the Dating Masterclass series to help you get your mindset right when it comes to dating, when it comes to readiness, when it comes to setting up your profile, when it comes to not wasting time with all these pen pals and people that just want to chat. Like, no, you don't need that. Get rid of it.
If you're not part of the membership community, then sign up today and get access to that six part series with worksheets in the Brave Widow membership community so that you can free yourself from a lot of this mind drama that happens.
When it comes to dating and it comes to finding love after loss, our brains like to feed us all kinds of mind drama about why it's not gonna work, it's gonna be hard, it's gonna be heavy, it's gonna be difficult, it's just gonna suck. And the reality of it is that it doesn't have to. Finding love after loss is totally possible even if you're finding love
later in life, like Dr. Gloria and Dr. Frank did in their 80s, in their 80s, people. I hope you enjoy their story and their sense of humor as much as I did. And I hope ultimately it inspires you that if you want to find love again after loss that you can, and it's not too late for you.
Now, before we dive into this story, I want to let you know, we are going to have another free public live workshop, and I'm not going to drop too many hints about what this workshop is going to cover. But if you want to be among the first to know, and you're not in the membership community already, then you definitely want to be on the email list.
And the way to join that list is to go to BraveWidow. com slash free F R E E. I have a whole packet. Of free resources just for you and by signing up you can be one of the first to know of when this workshop is going to happen, what it's going to be about, and you can get registered. If you're on the email list it's super easy to register.
It's literally one click. It signs you up automatically and we make it as convenient for you as possible. All right, let me introduce Dr. Gloria and Dr. Frank.
Dr. Gloria Horsley, age 84, and Dr. Frank Powers age 82 Co-authored the new book Open to Love, the Secrets of Senior Dating, to share their tips and tricks on finding love in their golden years, just like they did.
It's available on Amazon in the us. You can find it in a hard book version, as well as audiobook for Kindle. Two years ago, they were both open to finding love again, following the passing of Gloria's husband of 60 years and Frank's divorce. They met on Silver Singles, a dating website for seniors, and then decided to meet in person in Frank's hometown of Scottsdale, Arizona.
Online dating was new to Gloria, while Frank had used the service off and on throughout the years. Frank says his heart skipped a beat when he saw Gloria's profile, and And Gloria said she was drawn to Frank's profile because he was a therapist like her and enjoyed favorite pastimes of golf and pickleball.
Since their very first date, they've been inseparable and decided to share the secrets to finding love with other seniors through this new book. Playfully dubbing themselves the golden dating doctors. They have also been co hosting the Open to Hope podcast where they've been discussing senior related Senior relationship themes, as well as tips and tricks to finding hope and love after loss.
Dr. Gloria Horsley, PhD, is a licensed marriage and family therapist and clinical nurse specialist. She is the president and co founder of the Open to Hope Foundation and co hosts the award winning Open to Hope TV series and podcast. A former faculty member of the University of Rochester School of Nursing and the Academy of Intuition Medicine, she has co authored 10 books and written numerous articles.
She's a member of the Forbes Nonprofit Council and serves on the advisory boards for the Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors and the Elizabeth Kubler Ross Foundation. Widowed after 60 years of marriage, she has four children, including a deceased son and ten grandchildren. She and her partner, Dr.
Frank Powers, mostly split their time between Palo Alto, California and Scottsdale, Arizona. Dr. Frank Powers, PhD, has been a licensed psychologist with a private practice in Scottsdale for the last 30 years. He served as a chairman of the Psychiatric Security Review Board for the state of Arizona and is a past psychology professor at Scottsdale Community College.
He studied sexuality under William H. Masters and Virginia E. Johnson and received advanced training in couples therapy with the Imago Institute of Harville Hendricks. He has published numerous articles on the subjects. A graduate of George Williams College, he holds a master's degree from Arizona State University and Columbia University and a doctor in psychology from Union Institute.
He's award winning sculptor and in his spare time, he enjoys golf, pickleball, and tennis. He has two stepdaughters and one step grandson from a previous marriage. Open to Hope is an international nonprofit organization with the mission of helping people find hope after loss. The organization features an online community offering inspirational stories of loss, hope, and recovery, as well as an award winning television talk series, a podcast, book, and articles.
In parallel with the nonprofit Open to Hope, president and co founder, Dr. Gloria Horsley and her partner, Dr. Frank Powers, co wrote Open to Love, The Secrets of Senior Dating. For more information on Open to Hope, visit opentohope. com. You'll also find links to all of their social media and their websites in the show notes of this podcast episode.
All right, let's dive in.
Introducing Love After Loss with Dr. Gloria Horsley and Dr. Frank Powers
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[00:07:55] Emily: Hey, Hey, and welcome back to another episode of the brave widow show. I am here with doctors, Gloria Horsley and Dr. Frank Powers, and they are going to share their story and some tips and insights that they have found for finding love after loss later in life.
And I'm so excited to host them on the show today. So both of you welcome and thank you for deciding to come on the show.
[00:08:23] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Oh, thank you. Thanks, Emily, for having us on the show today. We were talking about who should start and I guess it probably starts with me.
[00:08:30] Dr. Frank Powers: Of course.
[00:08:31] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Oh, everything starts with me.
[00:08:34] Emily: He's a smart man, but go ahead and get
us
started.
[00:08:38] Dr. Frank Powers: Hey, I've
learned.
[00:08:40] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Yes.
Gloria's Journey: From Widowhood to Writing
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[00:08:41] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Okay, so, starting out almost 4 years ago, my husband during COVID, but he died of a staph infection after his, like, 12th back surgery. And I had been in ICUs with him before, and I had traumas, and I'd lost my hair, and all sorts of things.
So, by the time he found me
[00:08:57] Dr. Frank Powers: Caretaking traumas. Yeah,
[00:08:58] Dr. Gloria Horsley: caretaking traumas, which we Talk about in our new book. But anyway, I had been through a lot with him. We've been married for 60 years. He was a wonderful guy. He had all his faculties and all that, but his body, he knew his body was pretty dead. So anyway, when he died, um, it was during COVID, but luckily I'm from a little tiny town and we went back to the town of Brigham city, Utah, and we had a regular funeral with the people we both grew up with.
So that was lucky for us. So we were able to do it because it was a green zone there at the time. So this was, uh, almost four years ago. And I, uh, met a guy in a grief group and it wasn't Frank. And I met him early on in a grief group and he happened to be a golfer. And so am I. So, um, we golfed every day, every day
[00:09:50] Dr. Frank Powers: through grief,
[00:09:51] Dr. Gloria Horsley: golfing through grief.
We got every day with him. Yeah. And then he ended up after about six months moving in with me, and then he decided he went to Hawaii with me.
[00:10:01] Dr. Frank Powers: He ghosted her. He ghosted me.
[00:10:03] Emily: What? You got ghosted?
[00:10:05] Dr. Frank Powers: Yeah, I did. It was probably the biggest gift to me. He could have met.
[00:10:12] Dr. Gloria Horsley: I was in Hawaii at the time because I'd gone there with well you can understand why he goes to me with the 23 family members.
[00:10:23] Dr. Frank Powers: Yeah, he was a little over a mile.
[00:10:24] Dr. Gloria Horsley: I have three daughters and, uh, 13. That's amazing. So he left and went home and I got COVID in Hawaii and I was sitting in a hotel room and he ghosted me and said, I should have told you, but I'm through. I'm leaving your keys on the counter and I'm out of here.
[00:10:42] Dr. Frank Powers: Yeah.
[00:10:42] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Wow. I was so hurt and angry and I was looking out the window at my friends going to dinner and everything.
And I would creep out by myself to go for a little walk with COVID because my doctor's like, don't leave your hotel room and don't tell anybody you've got this, you'll never get back into the mainland. So I'm there, you know, recovering from COVID by myself. So I decided that I would write a book for widows.
Because I've written some other books on in laws and things. And so I'm, I'm mad. So I'm going to take revenge. Because I've learned a lot about being a widow and dating that I never even thought about. Because I was married for 60 years. So, uh, so I'm like, yeah, I'm going to write this book. So I start, so I, he had told me that he went online dating.
Yeah,
[00:11:30] Dr. Frank Powers: he had a lot of success
[00:11:32] Dr. Gloria Horsley: And he had a lot of success and he told me that he wouldn't have any trouble finding a relationship. Yes. Wow. Whoa. Okay. Okay. So I thought I'm gonna have to put a chapter on online dating. So I got on my little handheld. I didn't have my big computer there and I put silver singles I put over.
60 silver singles and I got a couple of people responded to me and one of them, uh, they were both in Arizona. I was staying with my lovely sister would let me live with her the year after my husband died. So I moved after, uh, yeah, I moved there during the winter and lived with her in Arizona cause I'm from California now anyway.
So I, um, got two people and I said to Frank,
[00:12:17] Dr. Frank Powers: The first one was a disaster. Thank God. So I was number two.
[00:12:22] Dr. Gloria Horsley: I met him. He had, he spent his whole time talking about pancreatic cancer.
[00:12:26] Dr. Frank Powers: Yes. And he, he had his little Schreiner shirt on with his name, Dave. So
[00:12:32] Dr. Gloria Horsley: listen,
[00:12:33] Dr. Frank Powers: after that, I looked pretty good.
[00:12:36] Dr. Gloria Horsley: He was a really, Dave was a very nice guy.
Finding Love Again: Gloria Meets Frank
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[00:12:38] Dr. Gloria Horsley: But anyway, then I met Frank a couple of days later. Well, I have a very robust website because I've been doing podcasts for 20 years. And my son was killed in an automobile accident. He was 17 many years ago. So, and I'm a therapist and a clinical nurse specialist. I've been in the grief and loss world for many, many years.
So I knew a lot of people in that world. And, and, so I met Frank.
[00:13:04] Dr. Frank Powers: She told me first off that I, I don't want to, I don't want to, you know, misrepresent myself. I'm really interested in just writing a book and doing research.
[00:13:14] Dr. Gloria Horsley: So I
[00:13:15] Dr. Frank Powers: looked at her and I thought, no, I don't think
this is not research. What a way to open a conversation. Like this is just for research, just so you know. Yeah,
[00:13:28] Dr. Gloria Horsley: just so you know that's all that's going on in there. Anyway, so I was going to pick up my, I was going to have shoulder surgery and I was going to pick up my friend at the airport the next day.
And Frank says, you don't know this area, why don't you take it to the airport.
[00:13:43] Dr. Frank Powers: Yeah.
[00:13:45] Dr. Gloria Horsley: So we've been together ever since.
[00:13:47] Dr. Frank Powers: Yeah. Yeah. It was really a pickup.
[00:13:52] Dr. Gloria Horsley: That's so good. Yeah. We've been together for almost going on three years now.
[00:13:58] Dr. Frank Powers: And,
[00:13:58] Dr. Gloria Horsley: We live together. We both sold our houses and we're moving into a senior.
[00:14:05] Dr. Frank Powers: Yeah, we, we were actually, uh, engaged to get married and then we had a marriage license and we had all kinds of things. And then we did our research for our book and then we decided, no, I don't think, uh, I think we should say fiance's forever easier. My God,
[00:14:20] Dr. Gloria Horsley: my daughters give us a hard time.
[00:14:22] Dr. Frank Powers: Well, they did
[00:14:23] Dr. Gloria Horsley: my three daughters cause I was going to get married after two weeks.
Yeah.
[00:14:29] Dr. Frank Powers: Yeah. I, uh, that coming from, uh, you know, background that you had, you know, that was
[00:14:34] Dr. Gloria Horsley: from a religious background, you know, you just,
[00:14:36] Dr. Frank Powers: that's
[00:14:37] Dr. Gloria Horsley: around, which is a little bit about the book. There's some danger. We talk a lot
[00:14:43] Dr. Frank Powers: about it in
[00:14:43] Dr. Gloria Horsley: our book.
The Secrets of Senior Dating: Insights from the Experts
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[00:14:44] Dr. Gloria Horsley: It's called Open to Love the Secrets of Senior Dating, but we actually have found out that a lot of people like this book that aren't seniors.
[00:14:53] Dr. Frank Powers: Yes, uh, it has some dating advice that I think is probably not necessarily just age related. Some interesting things about, uh, what you need to, you know, look for in a mate and how especially you do online because we find a lot of people did not have great experiences when they first went online and we have really helped people.
One of the issues that we talk about a great deal is that you should never go online alone. You should never go on your head alone, but you shouldn't go online alone. You should have a dating buddy. And we talk about what dating buddies can do for you, and that it's really a lot more fun. It's a lot more, Educational.
You have to learn, especially people at our age we're not used to being online. Anybody over 50 or 60. Yeah. This is kind of a new experience for them. So,
[00:15:47] Dr. Gloria Horsley: you know, people don't realize that the average age of widowhood is 57. mm-Hmm. .
[00:15:52] Emily: Yeah. I was 37 when my husband died and I, online dating wasn't a thing for me either.
Right. So just figuring out like. That's why I was attracted to online dating apps. Cause I'm like, I hear all the horror stories. I have to know, is it true? How people act?
[00:16:10] Dr. Frank Powers: And, and some of the stories are true.
[00:16:14] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Yeah. Like you didn't tell her your story. Cause you're a big online dater for years.
[00:16:18] Dr. Frank Powers: Well, I, you know, I had been married and, and, uh,
[00:16:22] Dr. Gloria Horsley: A couple of times.
[00:16:23] Dr. Frank Powers: Yeah, a three time loser. But one of the things was I was married for almost 20 years to another psychologist and she and I had a practice together and we worked with couples, couples to couple. And, and so I had a lot of experience with, with seeing people go through the whole dating process. And also if you were married, what were the elements that you needed to tackle or deal with if you're going to stay married and have a really good relationship?
So that 20 years was a real education for me and we worked together very well. And so when that relationship ended in divorce, I was devastated. And so I wasn't sure what I was going to do. And then I went online at that point and that was 2000. So I had been trying online to meet people. I met some absolutely wonderful women and had some really absolutely wonderful relationships for that.
Period of the last 20 years, but this one was wonderful. So this, this was like crowning glory and I had almost given up. I mean, I had kind of decided, well, you know what, I'm kind of an old guy, you know, who's going to really want, I've been fixed in my ways and I'm kind of like mudging. So, you know, why, why would someone want to be with me?
So, A friend of mine who's also a psychologist kind of convinced me said, no, you have had wonderful luck meeting really fascinating people online, you know, uh, instead of going into a senior community and kind of languish, uh, you know, and, and,
[00:18:10] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Oh, you thought there'd be a lot of women in the senior?
[00:18:12] Dr. Frank Powers: Well, I thought I'd be, I thought the numbers would be good.
They are. So that wasn't a, that was my second alternative, but I, I went online and, and then saw her, her profile and said,
wow,
what a powerhouse lady. I mean, I've got to meet this lady.
[00:18:30] Dr. Gloria Horsley: And you're a sculptor. So you had a sculpture site. We both had sites because we both had over 40 years. So we combine 80 years of experience.
[00:18:41] Emily: That's amazing.
Navigating Online Dating: Tips and Tales
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[00:18:43] Emily: So, so talk about for just a minute, like, how do you get past the insecurities of I'm, I'm older, I'm not really in shape just the natural insecurities that people have. People have about getting on these apps. How do you, how did you get over that?
[00:18:59] Dr. Frank Powers: You've got to find some people and we will tell you one of the things we found is that your children are not good supporters if you're an adult,
[00:19:10] Dr. Gloria Horsley: because they may start out with you, but they're not going to want to hear it.
They don't want
[00:19:16] Dr. Frank Powers: to hear about your love life. They don't want to hear about your day.
[00:19:19] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Honestly, I was saying to Frank, it doesn't matter how old you are. Everybody gets silly.
[00:19:25] Dr. Frank Powers: You get to be a teenager again, so I mean, it's fun.
[00:19:28] Dr. Gloria Horsley: It's exciting. It's enjoyable. It's aggravating.
[00:19:33] Dr. Frank Powers: Yes, it's
[00:19:34] Dr. Gloria Horsley: ridiculous. Yes.
[00:19:36] Dr. Frank Powers: So
[00:19:36] Dr. Gloria Horsley: you need somebody who will laugh with you and and also
[00:19:40] Dr. Frank Powers: the profiles and and look at them and give you a give you hope that there's possibilities because what we talk about in the book is sometimes it's really kind of fun just to sit in your pajamas at home with your dating buddy.
And go through these profiles and look at these people and, and, and just have fun thinking about what's the possibilities out there? What are the things that I might be able to have? Because you've got to build some hope. And if you don't have hope, you won't sustain yourself online because it is a process.
And sometimes, sometimes people don't really in their profiles be honest. And so sometimes you meet people and you say, My God, their profile and they don't look alike.
[00:20:27] Dr. Gloria Horsley: But you have to be really careful about how you write your own profile. And
[00:20:32] Dr. Frank Powers: yeah, and if you're younger. You can kind of play the
[00:20:38] Dr. Gloria Horsley: whatever I am in my miniskirt, you know, all that,
[00:20:41] Dr. Frank Powers: but as an older person, you need to put a specifically what you want and say, look, I don't want a lot of responses.
I just want the right ones.
[00:20:50] Dr. Gloria Horsley: I don't
[00:20:51] Dr. Frank Powers: want. I only need 1.
[00:20:52] Dr. Gloria Horsley: I mean, well, I'm going to out you a little bit. Okay. Some of your past experiences have been with alcoholics.
[00:21:00] Dr. Frank Powers: Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, unfortunately have, have had a couple of relationships with people who were high functioning alcoholics, but it really was that you're having a person who's having an affair with alcohol.
So they're not available. So, and that does that.
[00:21:19] Dr. Gloria Horsley: So, on your profile, I said, no
[00:21:21] Dr. Frank Powers: alcoholics.
[00:21:22] Dr. Gloria Horsley: No. Yeah, I don't want, you know, if you have one, yeah.
[00:21:25] Dr. Frank Powers: Yeah. If you need a drink to function, hey, don't call me.
[00:21:31] Dr. Gloria Horsley: You know, one thing I'm really confused about is this six feet tall deal. I had, I just heard a guy say, Oh, you have to be six feet taller.
The women won't look at you. And Frank said, Oh yeah, guys have to be I don't think all women feel that way. I know some men do though, because
[00:21:48] Dr. Frank Powers: there's a lot of guys that are not six foot.
[00:21:50] Dr. Gloria Horsley: I know every time you guys, my, my DC husband was five, eight. And every time you guys who are six feet, see somebody five, eight, I've noticed you say, Oh, he's a short guy,
[00:22:01] Emily: it is. They want people guys that are six feet or taller. And to me, I want to just somebody, at least my height or taller. I just didn't want them to be shorter than me. That was fine. Yeah,
[00:22:13] Dr. Frank Powers: you see more eye to eye that way.
[00:22:16] Emily: Exactly. Yes. So tell us about. Yeah.
The Importance of a Dating Buddy
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[00:22:20] Emily: Tell us about dating buddies. It's like what, what's a good dating buddy?
How do you pick one out?
[00:22:25] Dr. Gloria Horsley: I think when you start out, you can use. Uh, a grandchild or another person to help you get online. But you know, those kids are pretty darn busy. They're not going to be there at 10 o'clock at night when somebody stood you up. So you want to look for friends during the long, the long term and people do it different ways.
And
[00:22:46] Dr. Frank Powers: it's really good to find someone who's had some experience online so that they can kind of guide you through and, and help you not make the same kind of mistakes that neophytes get into online.
[00:22:58] Dr. Gloria Horsley: But you can do it by yourself. I did. But, you know, yeah,
[00:23:02] Dr. Frank Powers: yeah, yeah, she made all the mistakes.
[00:23:05] Dr. Gloria Horsley: I made all the mistakes.
[00:23:10] Dr. Frank Powers: First, first off, you know, there's a whole issue, especially for women we found about. What age do you put on there, especially if you've aged well, and these guys all want women who are 10 years younger. And so what do you do if you're a woman who has age? Well, um, And you don't want to be dating someone who's 10 years older than you because they don't have the energy.
They don't have the zest for life that you do. So, uh, we, we have a whole section of the book talking about what are we Stay in your five
[00:23:46] Dr. Gloria Horsley: year age group. We say that for men too. These men are not happy when they're
[00:23:51] Dr. Frank Powers: 80
[00:23:52] Dr. Gloria Horsley: and their wives are 60. I guarantee you. I mean, you want payback.
[00:23:58] Dr. Frank Powers: Oh my God. Yes. The May December relationship is very, very difficult.
I had so many guys that came in and they were just so sad about the fact that, you know, when they were in their 40s and their wife was in their 20s, it worked fine. But when they were in their 60s and their wife was in their 40s, believe me, it did not work as well. and the, uh, that, that was a very different,
[00:24:23] Dr. Gloria Horsley: particularly 60 and 80.
[00:24:25] Dr. Frank Powers: Oh my God, yes. 80 and 60 is a whole nother issue.
[00:24:30] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Yeah.
[00:24:30] Dr. Frank Powers: So we say five years. Yeah. We say, you know, try to be careful. Stay in your lane. Find someone who's more similar to you, not someone who's exciting. Like in your thirties, you look for someone who's gonna add a lot to your life. People like bad boys, and you have to do a lot work.
You have to. You know, change things and you've got differences. Find someone who's very similar to you. You'll have much more success. Find someone who thinks the way you do. You don't have to change them.
Maximizing Fun in Dating: Strategies and Stories
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[00:25:01] Dr. Frank Powers: You could just have fun with them. And this is a period about having fun and enjoying yourself and be active.
The Power of Dating Groups and Online Connections
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[00:25:08] Dr. Gloria Horsley: My daughter, um, she has a guy right now and has for a while, but when she was online dating, she had a dating group. She had four girlfriends. It's not just one.
[00:25:19] Dr. Frank Powers: You can have several dating buddies and it's usually a good idea. They get
[00:25:23] Dr. Gloria Horsley: together once a month and then they also supported each other through the dating process.
And then she did meet him online. She met him, um, on at a reunion. No, she met him on Facebook because he was going to have surgery on his knee from skiing. And she said she was ready to go off Facebook and she saw and responded to him that. And we want to say this,
[00:25:42] Dr. Frank Powers: but they, they were, they knew one another when they were younger.
They were
[00:25:46] Dr. Gloria Horsley: in great school together and we knew him. That's right.
[00:25:48] Dr. Frank Powers: So
[00:25:49] Dr. Gloria Horsley: people are
Rekindling Old Flames: Success Stories from Reunions
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[00:25:50] Dr. Frank Powers: meeting a lot of people at reunions. Yeah. That's another way. I'm not just online, but at reunions, they go back and they meet a. Oh, we dated when we were 17. And, uh, yeah, yeah. My wife died and, oh, my husband and I got divorced and, and they meet.
And, and I had, I had probably 10 at one time in my practice, uh, where the people had met at reunions and, uh, they had been dating people. In their teenagers years, they had gone on to other relationships and now they were both, and
[00:26:28] Dr. Gloria Horsley: these stories are in the book, you know, uh, we had a, yeah, we
[00:26:31] Dr. Frank Powers: have lots of stories.
Yeah. But it was 40 years of a therapy together.
[00:26:35] Dr. Gloria Horsley: I had a , I had a client who's. A kid whose son was in the PR business and stuff and, uh, she's, her husband died and his dad and he said, Oh, why don't you go online, mom?
Navigating Online Dating: Tips and Real-Life Advice
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[00:26:47] Dr. Gloria Horsley: And she went online. And then when she started getting pictures, she called him and said, Hey, you know, this is what's happening.
I'm getting these pictures. I'm not sure. And he said, Oh, mom, you sound upset. Online's not probably for you. And that was it. And she was excited about it. Yeah, she stopped. So, you know, make sure you're going to have people who can support you through it. They think it's going to be fun, you know, but you, you've got friends that, you know, and you won't necessarily, it might not be online where you meet them, but there's a little gland in your brain called the amygdala.
And it, It is that hormonal area that gets you excited when you decide to start dating. And when you put the money in and sign up, it means you're dating. And then you start dressing a little better, you get out of the sweats, you walk into a coffee shop, you glance around, you go sit at the bar. You know, make an effort to sit at the bar when you go to your hotel if you're early, you know, chat it up with the bartender who knows everybody that drops in, you know, I think of it as fun.
[00:27:52] Dr. Frank Powers: Yes. And you won't do it and and that's. That has been the sad part when we've made people who say, Oh, online, it doesn't work. You know, I had such a terrible experience. Well, you will have some experiences, but if you can't have fun with them, then you won't continue. And, and it is a numbers game, especially for women.
Um, yeah, men have a tendency to, to have the numbers in there. Side and online. It is 5050 50 percent men 50 percent women. So it it is a better place. I think for women in some ways, because they stand a better chance of meeting someone. But you have to kiss a lot of frogs is 1 of my patients said before you meet your prints.
[00:28:40] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Yep. And you only need 1 person by the way. One person. That's all you're looking for. Yeah, that's true.
[00:28:47] Emily: That's true. And I think having the right mindset, thinking about it as fun, thinking about it as, yeah, I know I'm going to have ups and downs, but you know, that's part of the experience. And it gives me some funny stories to tell later.
It's always nice.
The Role of Therapy and Support in Dating
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[00:29:01] Emily: So what I have
[00:29:02] Dr. Frank Powers: to laugh with, with meeting ups
[00:29:04] Dr. Gloria Horsley: and your therapist can be a good support for you initially to make sure you've got a therapist who's interested in having you go online and know something about it. And, uh, you know, that can be a great support for you. However, they're not going to be there for you on Thanksgiving and Christmas.
So try to bring in
a
friend. Yeah.
[00:29:22] Dr. Frank Powers: Try to find some people that are, you know, at midnight
[00:29:25] Dr. Gloria Horsley: when you can't sleep, because you're upset, your therapist doesn't love you. Call
[00:29:29] Dr. Frank Powers: it,
[00:29:30] Dr. Gloria Horsley: it better be available at
[00:29:35] Dr. Frank Powers: midnight.
[00:29:37] Dr. Gloria Horsley: I actually called him at midnight when my son was killed. Oh!
Oh, gosh. So
Crafting the Perfect Dating Profile: Dos and Don'ts
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[00:29:46] Emily: One of the questions that I get frequently is, you know, what should people put on their profile?
How much info should they put on there? What do you guys say? What do you think?
[00:29:57] Dr. Frank Powers: I think you have to stay really realistic. And again, this is where the dating buddy can be very helpful.
[00:30:02] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Let's talk about the first chapter.
[00:30:04] Dr. Frank Powers: Oh, yeah.
[00:30:04] Dr. Gloria Horsley: We have you put what has worked for you in relationships in the past and what hasn't.
That's the beginning of your profile.
[00:30:12] Dr. Frank Powers: Yes. Because what has worked for you in Pass will probably be the kind of things you're gonna look for now. I mean, we think that we change a lot but actually those core things are back there in that brain and you're looking for the same qualities
[00:30:28] Dr. Gloria Horsley: and you may keep being drawn to bad boys.
[00:30:32] Dr. Frank Powers: Well, I can't
[00:30:33] Dr. Gloria Horsley: got to look at it. You looked at the fact that
[00:30:36] Dr. Frank Powers: I pick out alcoholics in a crowd
[00:30:43] Dr. Gloria Horsley: and sometimes you're drawn towards negative qualities. Yeah, there's something about them that reminds you they're familiar.
[00:30:50] Dr. Frank Powers: What's familiar is really what our brain feels comfortable with anything. That's not familiar.
We tend to shy away from, but that may be some things that are good for that are good.
[00:31:00] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Yeah. Yeah, like under six feet.
[00:31:05] Dr. Frank Powers: I like being six foot.
[00:31:07] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Frank's by the way, four years younger than I am.
[00:31:10] Dr. Frank Powers: Yes. I like older.
[00:31:12] Emily: Okay. And I'm sure he reminds you of that frequently.
So what about how would someone know?
Dealing with Grief and Loss While Dating
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[00:31:19] Emily: They're ready to date again, or if they're early on in grief as widow or a widow, or what are some good signs that people look for?
[00:31:28] Dr. Gloria Horsley: I mean, the grief thing and you do the divorce thing. Okay. Because, you know, sometimes it's far worse to be a divorce than it is to have a dead spouse.
That's really a lot of discrimination.
[00:31:38] Dr. Frank Powers: Uh, well, you know, it, it's considered a failure if it's a divorce. And if someone passes, uh, who is a spouse of yours, it doesn't seem. Like it's a failure. It was just as you know, something that happened in life and it doesn't necessarily you
[00:31:55] Dr. Gloria Horsley: didn't have anybody bring you casseroles.
[00:31:58] Dr. Frank Powers: God, no, they wouldn't even bring me dates.
[00:32:04] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Whereas when my husband died, many, many casseroles. And, uh, I, as I said, I told myself, this is what I said to myself. Okay. You've been in the grief and loss world for. 40 years, literally, because I worked as a clinical nurse specialist in psychiatry when my son was killed. I taught grief and loss at the University of Rochester.
I was already prepared, weirdly enough, maybe God, I always thought that. But anyway, anyway, I was in the grief and loss world for all these years and I'm like, Nobody's going to be able to help me and then I thought, what would I tell this person to do?
My granddaughter who's 30 said, grandma, what don't you want to play the field?
And I said, Liza, at my age, there is no field.
[00:32:59] Dr. Frank Powers: She was, she was wrong. Her granddaughter was right. There is a few.
[00:33:03] Dr. Gloria Horsley: So anyway, I called Cara in Palo Alto because I know Jim Chuchi, who's the head of it. And I said, Jim, Cara is for people who've lost any kind of partner, child, or whatever, spouse, um, in Palo Alto, California.
It's been there a long time. It's a wonderful organization. So I called Jim and I said, Jim, I, I am telling myself what I need to do and what I need is a therapist and, and a support group. So I said, but you're not going to be able to find anybody for me because Scott died 40 years ago, and I am, I've been in this field for 40 years, and, uh, and also now my spouse dies.
[00:33:44] Dr. Frank Powers: But they did find you somewhere.
[00:33:46] Dr. Gloria Horsley: They did. Jim, the guy, his name was Jim also, turned out, he said, well, let me see, I'll see if I can find somebody. And he called me and said, Gloria, I've got a guy for you, whose wife died, whose child died and who trains the therapist at Cairo. So I was really lucky. And I would say to people, find that person.
Do not just go with any therapist. Don't settle. If they don't know anything about grief and loss, do not go into that.
[00:34:15] Dr. Frank Powers: Yeah. And you have to feel that you're with someone who's really going to walk through this process. Who understands. As you well know.
[00:34:23] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Yeah, who has a gut feel for it, you know, who really, really understands.
So, but it's interesting because I was in a grief group and then had individual counseling with him once a week. And I met this guy in the grief group, but I, after about three times, I said, I can't handle it. Like, I told my therapist, I said, I can't hear other people's stories. It's not grief group. It's not for me.
It's too sad. You know, people drowning and all this and I'm like,
[00:34:54] Dr. Frank Powers: so you golf through grief.
[00:34:55] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Right? So, so he said, well, why don't you quit? And I said. Well, I don't want to let them down. Always the caretaker.
He said, oh, for heaven's sake, just call him up and tell him you're quitting. Who cares? So I, I quit. And then, uh, this guy and I, I quit. Jim gave me my number and he said, I can't believe you quit because I was gonna go ask you if you wanted to go golfing. So that's when we met. But as a widow, I have to say this.
Finding Support Through Community and Spiritual Groups
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[00:35:33] Dr. Gloria Horsley: There's a lot of support if you open yourself to it and say, yes, that's what somebody said to me, say yes. Even if say yes to all the invitation, I
[00:35:45] Dr. Frank Powers: was lucky enough that I had a men's spiritual group and there were nine of us and we met for 12 years and I got divorced and while the group was still there.
And so they were very, very supportive.
[00:35:58] Dr. Gloria Horsley: It was an ugly divorce,
[00:36:01] Dr. Frank Powers: pretty ugly. Yes, right. Yeah. You almost lost your practice. My, my, my wife was a therapist, but she had an affair with a client and she lost her license. Uh, and we lost our practice. So not only did I lose my wife, I lost my business partner. I lost that part of my practice.
So I had to start over again. So it was, it was quite something, but the men's spiritual group was, was my savior. I mean, they really helped me. Uh, they became my dating buddies and, and, uh, they were really good. I mean, they, they were tough on me about, Hey, what are you doing? Why aren't you online? Why aren't you looking?
And I said, Oh, okay. You think I really should? I mean, I have a tendency to pick alcoholics when I just not pick another alcoholic. So, no, it was really wonderful. It was a relief to find out that I didn't pick another alcoholic. So,
[00:37:02] Dr. Gloria Horsley: we've got a whole chapter in our book, um, dedicated to grief and loss on how, you know, if you're ready and if you're not, I mean, you have to, is, is it impacting your life daily living routine?
Can you go to
[00:37:16] Dr. Frank Powers: places that you used to go with your partner and, you know, And, you know, I, do you avoid friends and connections with you? Avoid talking about it
[00:37:26] Dr. Gloria Horsley: or are you talking about it too much when you're with another person? And I, I have widows tell me all the time that these widowers, you know, men marry within the first seven months.
And so they want to talk about their wives and
[00:37:41] Dr. Frank Powers: they want the person to be their therapist to help them through the process. It's not necessarily fair. So
[00:37:46] Dr. Gloria Horsley: you have to realize that that may happen or the guy may be worth it. Okay. And he may not. So
[00:37:51] Dr. Frank Powers: you have to make that judgment.
[00:37:53] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Yeah. Yeah. So, but we do have a lot of steps to look at and to see if you're ready and then fears and concerns.
We've got those in there. We've our number 1 fear is there. You mentioned some of the, you're not enough that there's, you know, there's nobody out there who'd want me, you know. That kind of thing. And I, my cousin was visiting me and I gave her a book and I said, you know, you've been divorced for a long time.
Why don't you start dating?
The Importance of Authenticity in Online Dating Profiles
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[00:38:20] Dr. Gloria Horsley: And she said, well, I'm not good looking enough. And I said, what are you talking about? You want to find somebody that sees a picture of you and likes it and likes what you look like and read your profile and likes it. You don't want somebody that is looking at somebody. She said, are these women that have their pictures on there?
I'm saying. You don't want somebody that's looking for somebody in a short skirt, you know, a short leather skirt with chains around her neck. That's not who you are.
[00:38:48] Dr. Frank Powers: Yeah, so I really and that's the part that a dating buddy really helps saying you know What you want to find someone that loves you and whoever you are Whatever you look like whatever your interests are you need to find someone and the interesting part is Certainly our experience is there is someone out there for almost everybody.
Yeah, you know, so the thing is That if you just stay in your lane and and say, I have a good assessment of myself. I put that in my profile. I really present who I am because most people have trouble when they present someone that they think they would like to be on their profile. Rather than
[00:39:29] Dr. Gloria Horsley: I want to learn to play golf.
So I'll pick a golf club.
[00:39:31] Dr. Frank Powers: And I never picked up a golf club but
[00:39:35] Dr. Gloria Horsley: I said, do not get in touch with you if you don't play golf. I really didn't, I don't want to give it to somebody who doesn't. She
[00:39:43] Dr. Frank Powers: actually said, I want someone with a handicap and not a physical one.
[00:39:50] Emily: I love it so much.
[00:39:53] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Humor is another thing you can fit in.
[00:39:55] Dr. Frank Powers: Yeah.
[00:39:56] Dr. Gloria Horsley: You need to fill out your whole profile. You need to show people that you've taken. And
[00:40:00] Dr. Frank Powers: put an accurate picture. Don't go back 10 years. More
[00:40:03] Dr. Gloria Horsley: than one picture. A glam
[00:40:05] Dr. Frank Powers: picture.
[00:40:06] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Yeah. Yeah. And take current pictures. Yes. Put them on.
[00:40:11] Dr. Frank Powers: Exactly. Because you want someone that wants you and if you don't present that in your profile, if you don't present who you are in your profile, then you're not going to bring people who want you.
You're going to bring your profile. They want to date your profile. They don't want
[00:40:25] Dr. Gloria Horsley: waste their time.
[00:40:27] Emily: This is about. I know. I wanted somebody to see me in real life and say, Oh, you look better than your pictures. Not be disappointed.
[00:40:35] Dr. Frank Powers: Well, that's exactly, I said, my God, you're the first person I met online recently that actually looks better than her picture.
[00:40:45] Emily: Exactly. Well, thank you so much for all of the tips and insights that you shared today. How can people get ahold of your book? Where can they go if they want to learn more from you?
Conquering Loneliness: Insights and Resources
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[00:40:57] Dr. Gloria Horsley: They can go to the Golden Dating Doctors. And do.com. Mm-Hmm . And you can go to open to hope.com. Also, if you wanna know more about, uh, grief, loss and Recovery, the Open To Hope Foundation, and you can buy our book Open to Love the Secrets of You're Dating.
It's on Amazon. And we would love to have you get out there and get it and, you know, we always write it and write
[00:41:21] Dr. Frank Powers: a review. Yeah. And write a
[00:41:22] Dr. Gloria Horsley: review for us. And we always love to say to people. I like to put in front of it, put this in the hands of somebody, you know, who needs to find love, even if it's not you, because it's out there.
And we know the surgeon general has told us one of the major problems in the United States is
[00:41:39] Dr. Frank Powers: Loneliness.
[00:41:40] Dr. Gloria Horsley: Yep.
[00:41:41] Dr. Frank Powers: It is the number one senior mental health issue.
[00:41:44] Dr. Gloria Horsley: And it's not going away. I don't hear anybody talk about dating. If you look at those articles, they're like, go roller skating, join bowling club, you know.
[00:41:56] Dr. Frank Powers: And Dr. Ruth in New York has just been designated as the loneliness person. Uh, so she's moved from her previous orientation to the issue of loneliness and she's delightful. I, what she says about loneliness is absolutely wonderful.
[00:42:16] Dr. Gloria Horsley: And we have a chapter that you won't want to miss. It's called through the bedroom door.
[00:42:21] Emily: Oh, that's so good.
Closing Thoughts: Embracing Love and Overcoming Loneliness
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[00:42:23] Emily: Well, thank you so much for, for coming on today and sharing all this great insights and I'll make sure all the links go in the show notes. So for anyone who's listening and not watching, you can go back and find those links to learn more about being open to love.
Are you a widow who feels disconnected? Do you feel like you're stuck or even going backwards in your grief? Widowhood can be lonely and isolating, but it doesn't have to be. Join us in the Brave Widow membership community and connect. We teach widows how to find hope, heal their heart, and dream again for the future.
Find your purpose and create a life you love today. Go to bravewidow. com to get started.
