Jenifer Carnes
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[00:00:00] Emily: Hey, hey, and welcome to episode number 141 of the Brave Widow Show. Guys, we got a lot of really good stuff happening in Brave Widow, and I wanna make sure that you know about it because I don't want you to miss out.
Upcoming Events and Programs
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[00:00:15] Emily: We have the Love After Loss mastermind that's been going on that goes through May, and I've just been having a lot of fun.
Love after loss and dating are just very juicy topics, and we get to have just a lot of very real conversations in that container.
We also just finished week seven of grief recovery method with our group of widows this past Sunday, and so I'm gonna be sending out some more dates here in the future where I will be offering that again. If you have not ever gone through grief recovery method, it is an eight week group program with a little bit of reading and a little bit of writing as an assignment.
But I've talked about this many times that this has been one of the key tools and processes that I use in helping widows to process their grief to process hurt. And loss. If you still really struggle with emotional hurt and healing with processing, what has happened with being able to feel that you can move forward without a lot of guilt,
this is a great place to start. And then we also have coming up on the 19th of March a workshop for our Brave Widow members on decluttering your home and your mind. And so if you wanna be part of Grief Recovery Method, if you wanna be a part of this decluttering workshop or even having access to the replay, you have to be a member of the Brave Widow Membership Community.
Introducing the Brave Widow Academy
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[00:01:50] Emily: I am really excited about where we're going in the future with the membership community, especially as we start to roll out. The Brave Widow Academy, and if you haven't heard the Brave Widow Mastermind, which was a six month program, is being rebranded as The Brave Widow Academy, and it's a structured A to Z step-by-step process that I've developed after years of working with widows and helping them to move forward through grief, to step into their own confidence and rebuild a life that they can love again, step by step.
A to Z to move forward through the four seasons of widowhood. What you need to do, all of that's gonna be in the academy.
Exclusive Membership Benefits
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[00:02:41] Emily: And the best way, the best pricing, the best way to get access to that is if you're not already a member of the Brave Widow membership community, is to sign up today and join the community.
And then you will get first dibs to things like grief recovery method. You'll get first dibs to going to these workshops and then also to future rollouts and enhancements of things that we do. It's really been an amazing experience to see people grow over time. And for our current members in the Brave Widow Membership community, even our lifetime and founding members that have been with me through previous masterminds or even through the beginning of Brave Widow, we're going to continue to add more coaching opportunity and times in the Brave Widow membership community format.
Only good things coming in the future. I am really, really excited about that. So don't keep putting it off. Go out today. Right now. Sign up to join the Brave Widow Membership Community. You can go to brave widow.com and join from there. Also, if you're listening to this podcast episode, if you DM me. If you comment wherever you're listening or watching this, if you send me an email or contact me on my website, I will give you 30 days free to the Brave Widow Membership Community, and you don't even have to have a credit card to sign up.
I'm running this through the end of March, but don't be a procrastinator. Don't wait until the last minute. I would love to give you 30 days free in the community because I believe that strongly that having that opportunity, you're going to want to stick around. You're going to see just how valuable and helpful it is to you and what an absolute steal it is cost-wise and investment wise to be part of the Brave Widow membership community.
Your return on your investment will be many, many, many times over what the cost is to be a part of the membership. So don't put it off. Go to brave widow.com. If you've been on the fence and you're like, okay, I'm just ready to join, I'm all in, or let me know. Between now and the end of March, 2025. If you want 30 days free, no credit card, no subscription to remember to go cancel.
Like you just wanna check it out, dip your toes in the water and I will send you the link to be able to do that. You are going to be so glad you took the time to do that. Alright, let's dive in now to today's episode.
Welcome to the Brave Widow Show, where we help widows find hope, heal their heart, and dream again for the future. I'm your host, Emily Tanner. After losing my husband of 20 years, I didn't know how I could ever experience true joy and excitement again for the future. I eventually learned how to create a life I love, and I've made it my mission to help other widows do the same.
Join me and the Brave Widow membership community and get started today. Learn more at BraveWidow. com
[00:06:00] Jenifer: Hi, I'm Jen. I lost my husband to COVID three and a half years ago. It was definitely one of, obviously one of the hardest things ever, but we all four were sick with COVID and my husband and I were hospitalized at the same time. He was okay for a week and then got worse and I was told to get the antibodies.
So I got the antibodies and my immune system attacked itself. So that's why I was hospitalized. And then he was there for 10 weeks in the ICU and we were so lucky that we got to see him every single day. The kids got to see him, we got to see him, but he just couldn't. Couldn't recover from it.
So on October 17th, we had to make the decision to take him off the ventilator and It was really hard.
[00:06:54] Emily: I was gonna say like How do you even come to a point of peace and feeling like okay? This is the right decision to make how did you do that?
[00:07:04] Jenifer: So it was amazing, actually. His medical team, every single one of them tied back to my gym that I worked out at.
So I felt like we were amongst family. The head of the ICU was a very good friend of ours. I felt like I was being led. Correctly, like they weren't get like just things were good and they had said, like Obviously, to like you're just praying for a miracle and praying for a miracle and praying for a miracle But you know in your head that it's not getting any better I guess and they called me on a Thursday and they were like, let's talk about palliative care he should be turning corners and he's not and I had asked him While he was in the hospital in the ICU, we had so many talks about end of life decisions and you know what he wanted and that kind of stuff just prior, for years prior to that and I knew that he wouldn't want to he wouldn't want to suffer or in a bad state and the doctor basically told me that his heart was working for his lungs and his heart and it was just Not getting his pulse ox is gradually dropping throughout the day even on the highest setting of the ventilator So we knew that it would end in like a heart attack type Situation and he had said from the day I met him that he wanted to be a DNR And so I knew I didn't want him to suffer, you know So it was definitely a difficult decision But like the medical answers were all pointing to the fact that he just wasn't gonna get any better.
[00:08:34] Emily: Thank you for sharing that And how long had you two been married?
[00:08:39] Jenifer: We were married for nine years. We were together for twelve. And we had two kids. We have a, at the time they were seven and fourteen. And they are, still are, daddy's boys. They were his Velcro children. Like, when daddy was around, mommy didn't exist, kind of thing.
[00:08:56] Emily: Of course.
After he died, what kind of support did you have or maybe not have from friends or family? What were those next few weeks and months like for you?
[00:09:06] Jenifer: We had an amazing, incredible support system. Michael was a local mechanic. We owned an auto repair shop with his best friend.
And he grew up in this Tiny town that we live in and everybody knew him. Everybody knew Mikey. He was the kind of person who would give the shirt off his back to a person down the street who, he just was this incredible kind. Wonderful soul. And it just came back to us tenfold the way he loved everybody.
So big, all of those people stepped in and loved us so big. We had friends literally moving into our house while he was in the hospital. My dad moved in with us to help me take care of the boys. And then, we had friends that were there from sunup to sundown. We had friends that put their camper in the driveway and never left.
Like it was incredible. Probably I would say the week after his funeral, my dad finally went home, our friends dwindled off, not dwindled off, but moved back into their own homes. And it just, to this day, it was three years in October and. We still have the most amazing, incredible support system.
We are so lucky. They've been wonderful. The hardest part though is, telling people how he died and then you get everyone's opinion on everything with that whole situation. And so that's been really tricky and hard to navigate, but we're doing it. We're figuring it out.
[00:10:24] Emily: Yeah. And what a gift that you had people that, surrounded you, that showed up, that kept showing up because for so many widows that isn't their experience.
[00:10:34] Jenifer: It's awesome.
[00:10:35] Emily: It's really a big blessing that you're able to go through that. But because like you said, sometimes as you share details or you share Oh did you guys do this? Or did you do that? And then there's almost like a reduced level of,
And
[00:10:54] Jenifer: I was very concerned about that with his level of care when he was admitted to the hospital. But it was never an issue. It never affected anything that was done to him. He was still treated as a human being and they still wanted him to come home. And it was, I feel like the people that you get the judgment from are leaning at it like in a political way instead of.
It's a human being who had two kids and a wife at home.
[00:11:21] Emily: Yeah.
[00:11:22] Jenifer: So that's been tricky.
[00:11:24] Emily: Yeah. And a lot of people share especially if they have a spouse that died from cancer or something, it's like people are looking for. An answer that will tell them that's not going to happen to me.
So it's did you do this? Did you do that? What kind of things did you eat? What kind of places did you go so that they can find the one thing to go? Oh I don't do that. So that's not going to be much. I'm saying, yeah,
[00:11:49] Jenifer: exactly. Yes. I can see that in a lot of situations.
[00:11:54] Emily: It's been just over three years now, and here you are on a podcast, being willing to share your story.
Amazing. And, yeah. And for some people, it might be five years for them, and they still feel like day one. What has been the most helpful for you over these past three years in processing the grief and in starting to just rebuild your life?
[00:12:20] Jenifer: Honestly, I feel like it's been my kids, there just hasn't been one second to stop, when he, right after he passed away, like we jumped right into soccer season and my youngest had a lot of issues with anxiety and depression and.
Honestly, I thought that maybe his struggles were like learning based and I had him tested at school and the teacher was like, or the counselor was like, this isn't learning based, this is anxiety and depression and fear and worry and his little emotions like are so big and he's so little, so we did a lot of therapy for him and I feel because He needed all that therapy that I didn't have one second to stop, to like we were fixing it together kind of thing.
Like I tried grief counseling and that just wasn't my jam. I got angry. I was like, how do you, how can you tell me how to fix this when you haven't lived it? And honestly, my, my youngest son's therapy, it helped both of us so much. And then we just have applied that to like this, my 17 year old and it's, I really think the boys have honestly kept me going and not giving me one second to, I do stop and I do dwell and I do get upset and I still have hard days and nights and all of the things, but you gotta pick it up and keep going, so that's been, definitely, I don't think I would have survived one second if it weren't for them.
[00:13:49] Emily: They're just knowing that you have to live for them and that you have to continue forward. Yeah, I've often wondered. Is it better or easier to have kids because so I had four you have to get up every day.
You have to keep going. Or is it nicer to be like, okay, no one's depending on me. I can just exist and I can just grieve and not worry about that. But there is no perfect
[00:14:17] Jenifer: answer. There's not. I wish there was. So maybe I should write a manual on how to survive this. Keep going.
[00:14:26] Emily: Yeah. So how has it been, raising a couple of kiddos and helping them with processing their own grief and what they're going through while also still trying to carve out time for yourself and Being able to feel that you can like just feel everything and process it.
It's been hard
[00:14:48] Jenifer: like Again, there's no manual. There's no like book to tell you how to do this. I've had some really good friends. Unfortunately, I guess we're all in the same boat and we've met since we've lost our husbands and we're all at different phases of it. One friend is at three years and she just got engaged.
And one friend is at two ish, two and a half maybe. And a couple other friends are newer and a couple of other are older and just being able to have a minute with them. And know that what you're feeling is normal helps so much. Like I couldn't even it's unfortunate that we're all in the same boat and I hate that this is how we became friends, but I could not survive without them and.
They each have kids and they lost their husbands at different, their kids, different ages. Do you know what I mean? One had older kids, one had younger kids, my kids have a seven year time span or age span. So it's just been, it's been so helpful. And so when I see another newly widowed woman on Facebook or whatever, I try to reach out and just be like, Hey, we have this great support system going.
And if you're ready, when you're ready, we're here for you kind of thing.
[00:16:00] Emily: Yeah, I think it's so helpful and imperative really that we surround ourselves with other people who are on the journey. And they might be a little further ahead or they might be a little further behind. But just to be able to talk about things without having to explain them.
Or like you said, trying to explain something to someone who's never gone through that. It's really difficult and can be frustrating versus having those people around you that are like, yeah we all have our own experiences, but you don't have to explain to me that losing your spouse means now you don't even know who you are anymore.
Exactly.
[00:16:40] Jenifer: They just know, and they just know the right things to say and how to. And they also are so helpful with the kids too, like you're at different stages and I have boys and one of my very close friends has girls, but it doesn't, they feel the same way, they may express it differently, but one girl might go through something and then I'm like, oh, my gosh, Luke said something similar and then we are able to talk and discuss and feel each other out and see what the best way is to handle it, the situation, whatever's upsetting them, that kind of thing.
[00:17:14] Emily: Yeah, I love that. That's awesome. And that are accepting other people in and yep, come join the gang. Nobody should have to do this alone. Exactly.
[00:17:25] Jenifer: It's terrible.
[00:17:26] Emily: Exactly. Thinking about where you are now versus where you were three years ago, what are some of the biggest differences that you've noticed?
[00:17:35] Jenifer: Honestly my will to live. As terrible as that sounds right after he died I was drinking a lot. I, they, when he was sick, I was prescribed like Xanax and Prozac. And there were four medicines I was prescribed. And I am not at first I was going to take it. And then I was like, no, I want to feel these things.
I don't want to be a zombie. I want to walk through these things with my kids. So I never took anything. I dove into my Bible and that obviously has been tremendously helpful and joined a gym and I made new friends, not new friends, but I guess new friends. I don't know. And we work out together and then you have this support system that's cheering you on constantly and they're all like honest to God getting to the gym every morning has probably been a saving grace to you because I've been watching my body change and getting healthier for my kids and they're cheering me on and it gets me out of bed, and I definitely am in such a better place than I was three years ago and it just, Thank goodness.
[00:18:45] Emily: Yeah. And I like that you really attacked it from multiple angles, like from a place of reflection and spirituality and reading the Bible, a place of. Physical health and being and fitness and then building up your support system and your friends and making new connections.
Like you really were proactive in I have to rebuild this life. It's not just going to magically.
[00:19:12] Jenifer: Exactly. If I don't work at it, it's not going to come to me and it's been hard and there have been days that I don't want to do it and you just have to keep going and trucking along, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. It's. It's definitely better than it was, but we're, I don't think we're, I don't know that we'll ever be there, like I don't know that we'll ever feel a hundred percent, but we're getting there.
[00:19:37] Emily: Sure.
How old are your kiddos now?
[00:19:40] Jenifer: 17 and 10.
[00:19:41] Emily: Okay. So do you have a senior?
Is he a senior this year? He's not.
[00:19:44] Jenifer: He'll be a senior next year.
[00:19:46] Emily: Okay.
[00:19:47] Jenifer: Both of them are summer birthdays. So we did.
[00:19:49] Emily: Okay. Yeah. And how are you thinking about, now that you're oldest, he'll be a senior, will be a senior next year. And that's another major life milestone. How are you thinking about that?
[00:20:04] Jenifer: My moments, sometimes I'm like, God, this sucks, his dad's not going to be there for his wedding or his graduation. And then I'm like, you know what though, he is he's got the best seat in the house. And Luke hasn't said anything, he hasn't shown any signs that he's upset about it.
Or, he has the best perspective, my 17 year old. He is incredible and amazing and his perspective on everything is just so good. He'll just be like, I'll be crying on the couch and he'll be like, I don't know why you're crying. Dad's right here. He's watching you. He's laughing at you and you're doing it.
You're doing the things and I'm like I'm allowed to cry. Cause I miss him, but he just, I don't know. It might come out to us in 25 years when he has his own kids, but for now, he's got such a good head on his shoulders.
[00:20:49] Emily: That's amazing. And it really yeah.
[00:20:52] Jenifer: We had some struggles. We all just had the flu.
And it was very much like when we were all sick with COVID, there was no end in sight. My youngest was down for 12 days. He started with what we thought was Noro, but looking back, I think it just was all the flu and it just took forever. And Luke and I had it at the same time. So Clay's on the couch, Luke's in his room, I'm here and I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is so much like.
When we all had COVID and it just brought back a lot of anxiety and fear and worry, especially for clay, my youngest. All just, we made it, we survived, like we did it.
[00:21:27] Emily: Yeah. And it's, being sick or having your kids that are sick and then you're sick. I think that also brings up a lot of I'm not supposed to be doing this alone and very much should be here.
And he's going to take care of me.
[00:21:41] Jenifer: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But. What can you do? This is the life you were handed and you gotta just do it.
[00:21:50] Emily: Yeah. So have you thought any more about are you in a relationship again? Are you thinking about finding another relationship? Where are you at?
[00:21:59] Jenifer: I don't know. I don't know. He set the bar so high that I'm, I am an incredibly codependent person. So I couldn't change my clothes without calling him and being like, should I wear a pink shirt or a blue shirt? Ridiculous. I one time sent a screenshot to a friend of mine with a phone number, like my call log on it.
And she responded back and she was like, I feel so bad for your husband. I called him constantly and he just, he dealt with me. We were just best friends. We were inseparable. We, he worked two 15 times a day, so the bar is set so high for me. Also I'm finally, for the first time in my life, learning how to be my own human.
So I don't know I'm not, obviously, I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life. I'm not opposed to dating, but I like where I am right now. I don't know. I pray about it all the time. I pray that, if it's part of my story and part of God's plan for me, that it'll just be easy, like it was with my colleague.
It'll just, we. When on our first date and a week later, we were living together. I just, if it's supposed to happen, I need to, it needs to be obvious. I don't know that I want to dating sounds terrifying and exhausting. I don't know if you're in all the widow groups on Facebook, but some of these stories, Yeah.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't want to be with someone for two years and then decide we're on a different page and break up,
[00:23:26] Emily: no, and I think you're in such a good mindset of when I'm dating again, or if I do, I want this person to add to my life in every way. I'm not dating from a place of loneliness or a place that
[00:23:41] Jenifer: there's a
[00:23:41] Emily: hole that somebody's I'm dependent on someone to fill.
And I think that's the easy trap. I know I got caught up in early on is like just that incredible loneliness of Missing that other person. Yes. It is a
[00:23:56] Jenifer: deep, dark loneliness,
[00:23:58] Emily: yeah, so I think having the right mindset, walking into it and surrender and confidence and just knowing Oh, this person hasn't texted me back in two days, they're not my person.
Oh, this person, doesn't line up with my values, they're just not my person. It doesn't mean they're a bad person, I'm a bad person, just means they're not the person meant for me. Is a whole different dating experience than all of the horror stories that we get to see on those Facebook groups.
Yeah.
[00:24:26] Jenifer: Did you date a lot of people before you met your husband or did you not really?
[00:24:31] Emily: I didn't really go on very many dates at all, but I did go on and off the dating apps a lot. And there was a lot of volatility, a lot of emotional rollercoasters. I made a lot of mistakes early on and just was. in such a place where I was just trying to figure it out.
And I just wanted someone who, I wanted someone to care about how my day went, I wanted someone to send funny videos too. And but looking back, I certainly dated or interacted with people where I'm like, what was I thinking? That was just, it was not going to work out long term and they're not bad people by any means.
But they're just not it was not going to work well, like it would have really been a struggle long term to make that work and, when I finally came back off and worked on falling in love with my life first, and coming from a place of God, you know better than I do. Who would be a good fit for me?
And, I have some non negotiables, but apart from that, I don't, there are a lot of things I don't care about. And two weeks later, then Robert and I started talking. Yeah, it just I, It took me a long time to figure out how to start attracting the right type of people, how to go through the process instead of, everything is scarce and I have to go find someone I'm a magnet, and I am just putting myself out there so the right person can find me, and if, someone ghosts me, I just laugh about it obviously that wasn't my person.
Or if someone, wants to hook up or whatever, then I don't take it personal. I don't get offended. I didn't get upset. Like the volatility was just non existent really. So it's like when you can walk into it with that right frame of mind, it's a much better improved.
[00:26:23] Jenifer: Did you know him when you were with your husband?
Did you know Robert, before your husband passed?
[00:26:30] Emily: No. No, I just knew we had met through Facebook and we had 12 or so mutual friends. So I felt pretty confident, like I could ask around and know what kind of person he was. So that was really helpful.
[00:26:45] Jenifer: That's awesome.
[00:26:46] Emily: Yeah.
[00:26:47] Jenifer: Love it. Good for you.
[00:26:49] Emily: So I'll be excited to know if decide that yes, that is in the cards for you in the future or no, it's not.
And if it's not, I want people to hear me say it doesn't make you incomplete.
[00:27:02] Jenifer: Exactly.
[00:27:03] Emily: Yeah. Yeah. You can still have a very beautiful life. As a solo person or as someone who has a friend or how, however that looks so
[00:27:14] Jenifer: yeah, for sure. I feel like my boys, Luke had Michael in those pivotal years, and I feel like Clay definitely needs that father figure and Luke has stepped into that figure, but that's not his job, like he's allowed to be a kid and have fun and he does take Clay everywhere with him and their best buddies and Clay's or Luke's friends.
I had gallbladder surgery, an emergency situation, and Clay had basketball tryouts, and Luke's friends, three of them, came over and picked up Clay and took him to basketball tryouts for me. That's awesome and wonderful, but I also again, don't want to be alone the rest of my life, and I do feel like Clay deserves that father figure.
But Those are big shoes to fill, so we're just going to take it day by day and see what happens.
[00:27:58] Emily: I know. So I'll give you a thought or a prayer to consider, which is praying for something better than you could have ever imagined, like a relationship better and more beautiful than you can even think of.
And yeah. Yeah,
[00:28:20] Jenifer: that would be awesome.
[00:28:22] Emily: Very good. Yes. Okay. As you think about the person who is in their early days and they're struggling and it just feels hopeless and pointless and maybe they resonate with your story. They have some similarities there. Like what words of encouragement or wisdom would you want to say to those widows?
[00:28:45] Jenifer: That you'll survive. You don't think you're going to, you don't think you're going to make it through the day, but every day that you survive, you've survived your hardest day. And to even if it's me, or anybody, call me at 2am, call me at 6am, call me at 4, I don't care I will be there, I will help you.
We'll get through it. And the little stuff, the groceries, the laundry the cleaning, the packing of the lunches, all of that happens. It's like magic and you don't know you're doing it and pretty soon you look back on the day before and you're like, Oh my gosh, I packed their lunch for the first time today.
And we got up on time for school. I can't tell you how many times after my dad left. I would check Clay into school and be like, sorry at least we're here. At least we got up kind of thing, but then all of a sudden we were making it to school on time and each day just gets, I don't know if easier is the right word, but each day you're stronger than the day before and you can do it.
And it's going to suck and it's going to be hell and you're going to cry. You're not going to want to do it, but you can do it. Absolutely.
[00:29:53] Emily: Thank you. Very well said. And I just appreciate you coming on the show, sharing your story and being so open about what that journey was like. So thank you for doing that.
[00:30:04] Jenifer: Thank you. It was so fun.
If you're newly widowed and aren't sure where to start, you need the brave new widow's starter kit inside brave new widow. You'll find a starter guide to help you through your first few months. A quick start guide. You can share with family and friends so they know how to help you. And a collection of some of the frequent topics that widows want to learn more about. To get the brave new widow series.
Just go to brave widow. Dot com slash start it's free and you'll get instant access. That's brave widow.com/start S T a R T. See you there.
